10.21.2006
...and back
So... the Kielser hydraulic clutch setup made it through our honeymoon trip and worked pretty well for a year of weekend trips and a winter in the garage. Then, in the summer of 2005 we were on our way home from the Cape in Sunday night traffic, just coming off the Sagamore Bridge, and the clutch pedal went to the floor. And stayed there. We coasted off the highway - I figured the clutch pushrod had separated at the adjuster. A quick check revealed that the linkage was intact, and that I'd had a hydraulic failure. No visible leaks meant it was probably an internal failure of the master cylinder or hydraulic throw-out bearing After a quick call to AAA we hitched a ride home in the crowded cab of a tow-truck (we saved money since we didn't have to pay for gas).
Life got busy and expensive for a while so I didn't get chance to really address the problem until recently. A few months ago I pulled the master out and though it appears to be fine, I'll need to take it somewhere to be tested. I have no way to test the throwout bearing in the car. Also, I had started to hear rumours about the Kiesler throwout bearing failing in other Mopars. So I explored my options:
1) Fix the Keisler hydraulic system Turns out Kiesler no longer sells the hydraulic linkage kit for the A-833 4-speed. They sell a similar master cylinder setup (for their 5-speed kits) that has a few improvement over the one I have. Their new master's hose fitting is on the side of the cylinder instead of the end, which would help with clearance (fender) issues inside the engine compartment. Also, they now sell it with what appears to be a spacer piece, which would position the master farther away from the pedal. I spoke to someone at Keisler who said they don't support the 4-speed product, their new master wouldn't be compatible with my throwout bearing, which they no longer sell. The bearing is the most expensive part of the whole system. I'd have to source it elsewhere, at around $300 plus fittings and hose.
2) Replace the hydraulic system I found a cool setup
3) Go back to a mechanical linkage
Life got busy and expensive for a while so I didn't get chance to really address the problem until recently. A few months ago I pulled the master out and though it appears to be fine, I'll need to take it somewhere to be tested. I have no way to test the throwout bearing in the car. Also, I had started to hear rumours about the Kiesler throwout bearing failing in other Mopars. So I explored my options:
1) Fix the Keisler hydraulic system Turns out Kiesler no longer sells the hydraulic linkage kit for the A-833 4-speed. They sell a similar master cylinder setup (for their 5-speed kits) that has a few improvement over the one I have. Their new master's hose fitting is on the side of the cylinder instead of the end, which would help with clearance (fender) issues inside the engine compartment. Also, they now sell it with what appears to be a spacer piece, which would position the master farther away from the pedal. I spoke to someone at Keisler who said they don't support the 4-speed product, their new master wouldn't be compatible with my throwout bearing, which they no longer sell. The bearing is the most expensive part of the whole system. I'd have to source it elsewhere, at around $300 plus fittings and hose.
2) Replace the hydraulic system I found a cool setup
3) Go back to a mechanical linkage
3.18.2005
Update on Keisler Hydraulic Clutch Actuator Kit Install - Solved!!!
If you remember from my last post, I had to cut the master cylinder pushrod down about 2 inches because it was too long for the heim joint to attach to my clutch pedal at the stock (recommended) location. Once I got it all installed I was having problems because the clutch would not fully disengage - I had to force it into gear to drive it, and was constantly jamming the pedal into the floorboard to get it to disengage. I was really bummin' because I had also just installed a brand-new transmission and didn't want to trash it driving with no clutch.
I tried re-bleeding the system, adjusting the pushrod to it's fullest extent, etc. No joy. I contacted George at Keisler who said it was probably because I had cut down the pushrod, and now I was not getting enough travel to fully compress the master. They suggested drilling a new hole at an attaching point in a "lower spot" than the original point, to try to gain some more length.
Examining the pedals, I could see that due to the way the linkage on the pedal works, drilling the hole "lower" would not translate to much difference, if any, in pushrod travel.
Another thought I had was to grind away at the pedal stop to allow it to rise up farther. This seemed like it would help a little, but possibly not enough, and I really didn't feel like pulling the pedals again to do something that might or might not work.
I finally figured out that I could install the clutch master through the firewall, from the OTHER SIDE, e.g., from the engine compartment into the cab, with the mounting flange in the engine compartment rather than inside the car. It seemed like the mounting plate on the inside would provide enough support, and this would also move the whole deal slightly lower down the firewall, providing even more travel.
I had to grind away A LOT at the mounting plate opening and bolt holes to jimmy it all into place, and I had to mount it about 1/2" lower down the firewall to work with the existing clutch pushrod hole, but I finally got it in there. The only real problem I have is that the fitting at the tip of the master now presses against the inner fender, and cocks the whole setup slightly to the right. I'd dimple the fender there but can't figure a way to get at the spot.
It looks a little weird, but hey, it works! I lengthened my (previously shortened) pushrod with a couple of sleeve nuts and an extra bit of threaded rod, but I now have an additional 1" of pushrod travel and it has done the trick. There is no noticeable firewall flex. I adjusted the pushrod so there is just the tiniest bit of free play at the pedal, and my clutch point is now at a nice 3 or 4 inches above the floorboard.
I think Keisler should provide a better solution for us early A-body guys, because now that the geometry is correct it works great! All they'd have to do is weld the master's mounting flange about an inch farther up the cylinder and it would work perfectly, not requiring this kluge-ey method.
If you remember from my last post, I had to cut the master cylinder pushrod down about 2 inches because it was too long for the heim joint to attach to my clutch pedal at the stock (recommended) location. Once I got it all installed I was having problems because the clutch would not fully disengage - I had to force it into gear to drive it, and was constantly jamming the pedal into the floorboard to get it to disengage. I was really bummin' because I had also just installed a brand-new transmission and didn't want to trash it driving with no clutch.
I tried re-bleeding the system, adjusting the pushrod to it's fullest extent, etc. No joy. I contacted George at Keisler who said it was probably because I had cut down the pushrod, and now I was not getting enough travel to fully compress the master. They suggested drilling a new hole at an attaching point in a "lower spot" than the original point, to try to gain some more length.
Examining the pedals, I could see that due to the way the linkage on the pedal works, drilling the hole "lower" would not translate to much difference, if any, in pushrod travel.
Another thought I had was to grind away at the pedal stop to allow it to rise up farther. This seemed like it would help a little, but possibly not enough, and I really didn't feel like pulling the pedals again to do something that might or might not work.
I finally figured out that I could install the clutch master through the firewall, from the OTHER SIDE, e.g., from the engine compartment into the cab, with the mounting flange in the engine compartment rather than inside the car. It seemed like the mounting plate on the inside would provide enough support, and this would also move the whole deal slightly lower down the firewall, providing even more travel.
I had to grind away A LOT at the mounting plate opening and bolt holes to jimmy it all into place, and I had to mount it about 1/2" lower down the firewall to work with the existing clutch pushrod hole, but I finally got it in there. The only real problem I have is that the fitting at the tip of the master now presses against the inner fender, and cocks the whole setup slightly to the right. I'd dimple the fender there but can't figure a way to get at the spot.
It looks a little weird, but hey, it works! I lengthened my (previously shortened) pushrod with a couple of sleeve nuts and an extra bit of threaded rod, but I now have an additional 1" of pushrod travel and it has done the trick. There is no noticeable firewall flex. I adjusted the pushrod so there is just the tiniest bit of free play at the pedal, and my clutch point is now at a nice 3 or 4 inches above the floorboard.
I think Keisler should provide a better solution for us early A-body guys, because now that the geometry is correct it works great! All they'd have to do is weld the master's mounting flange about an inch farther up the cylinder and it would work perfectly, not requiring this kluge-ey method.
7.19.2004
Last week I finished the installation of the Keisler hydraulic clutch actuator, the new transmission from Passon Performance, and a new clutch. I have a bunch of pictures of the process which I will post when I get a chance.
The Keisler clutch actuator kit finally arrived after over a month of waiting and more than 10 (not free) phone calls. I'm pretty sure the kit was sitting on their shelf the whole time (when I orrdered it they said it was in stock) and they just couldn't spare the time from putting together $5000 transmissions to mail it to me. When I finally did get the kit I got some decent support from the tech guy. The trick with Kiesler is NOT to talk to the main "customer service" guy who answers the phone and does supposed "order tracking" - he doesn't know anything, and repeats the same excuses over and over, and is infuriatingly polite in a really fake way that to me indicates he spends all day speaking to people in soothing tones instead of, say, looking in the inventory to see if they have something or not and why it hasn't shipped.
Also, in my experience no one from Keisler will ever return your messages - ever. So don't waste your time leaving a message. Keep trying until you get a person. For technical information, you need to talk to George at x 207 - he actually handles the parts and knows how they all go together. If you get the customer service guy, ask to speak to someone else. I'm not kidding. On average the phone calls to "customer service" were 15 or 20 minutes long, I always had to repeat my entire life story to the guy (even though it was the same guy each time) and the calls invariably ended in frustration and empty promises of "I'll look into it", "I'll raise the issue in our staff meeting", etc.
George was able to measure a part for me, to answer a question not appropriately addressed in the directions, and my phone calls were invariable under 4 minutes.
Anyways, enough about Keisler. On to the install.
One thing they don't mention until you actually get the directions is that you have to cut off part of the snout from your transmission's bearing retainer. This is described in a supplement for the 833 trans (the main directions are made for their 5-speed unit). They are a little vague about exactly how much to cut off, so I called George and he said the overall height of the retainer after you cut off the end is supposed to add up to 3" - that is, if the retainer is sitting on the ground pointing up, you would measure from the ground up 3" and that's where you cut. Sort of tricky to measure this but he also said it doesn't have to be exact. I used a hacksaw, as suggested, which was a bad idea because it ended up coming out crooked, and I had to grind on it with a Dremel tool for an hour to straighten it out.
Another thing that is not mentioned in the directions is that installing the trans will compress the hydraulic throwout bearing, and it is supposed to ride on the fingers of the clutch, which is different from a typical throwout bearing which is supposed to have a little free play.
Re-installing the transmission proved to be the most difficult part of the process, for 2 reasons:
1) I kept the dual exhaust w x-pipe in my car, which meant I had to angle the trans up through the pipes while sliding the input shaft in through the clutch and into the engine's crank. This was more difficult with the new throwout bearing in place, since it was much larger than the stock one. This reduced the clearance at a couple of critical points and made it much trickier to wiggle everything into place.
2) Once everything was lined up, the trans just WOULDN'T slide in the last inch or so. I wrestled with it for half a day, then posted on moparts.com, where it was suggested that I loosen the clutch bolts, even though I had already aligned it with the provided tool. This did the trick and the trans finally slid into place.
Another issue I ran into is that I had to cut the threaded parts of the heim join and the adjuster on the clutch master pushrod, since it was too long in stock form to fit between the pedal arm and the master. Once I cut these parts down to fit, now I can't get a full .030 of air gap at the clutch. This because I ended up shortening the throw of the master by cutting the rod. Again I contact George and he suggested drilling a new hole in the pedal arm below the original one. I'm not 100% sure this will work.
The pedal effort is very easy yet precise. Much better than the creaking mechanical linkage I had in there before. The shifting is very notchy, though. I'm not sure yet whether this is due to the clutch air gap being too low, or the shifter itself. I'm going to experiment with a different shifter at some point.
I have a weird noise that seems to come from the trans when decellerating, but only in 2nd gear. I'm still trying to track that down and I'm wondering if it might be u-joints. More later...
The Keisler clutch actuator kit finally arrived after over a month of waiting and more than 10 (not free) phone calls. I'm pretty sure the kit was sitting on their shelf the whole time (when I orrdered it they said it was in stock) and they just couldn't spare the time from putting together $5000 transmissions to mail it to me. When I finally did get the kit I got some decent support from the tech guy. The trick with Kiesler is NOT to talk to the main "customer service" guy who answers the phone and does supposed "order tracking" - he doesn't know anything, and repeats the same excuses over and over, and is infuriatingly polite in a really fake way that to me indicates he spends all day speaking to people in soothing tones instead of, say, looking in the inventory to see if they have something or not and why it hasn't shipped.
Also, in my experience no one from Keisler will ever return your messages - ever. So don't waste your time leaving a message. Keep trying until you get a person. For technical information, you need to talk to George at x 207 - he actually handles the parts and knows how they all go together. If you get the customer service guy, ask to speak to someone else. I'm not kidding. On average the phone calls to "customer service" were 15 or 20 minutes long, I always had to repeat my entire life story to the guy (even though it was the same guy each time) and the calls invariably ended in frustration and empty promises of "I'll look into it", "I'll raise the issue in our staff meeting", etc.
George was able to measure a part for me, to answer a question not appropriately addressed in the directions, and my phone calls were invariable under 4 minutes.
Anyways, enough about Keisler. On to the install.
One thing they don't mention until you actually get the directions is that you have to cut off part of the snout from your transmission's bearing retainer. This is described in a supplement for the 833 trans (the main directions are made for their 5-speed unit). They are a little vague about exactly how much to cut off, so I called George and he said the overall height of the retainer after you cut off the end is supposed to add up to 3" - that is, if the retainer is sitting on the ground pointing up, you would measure from the ground up 3" and that's where you cut. Sort of tricky to measure this but he also said it doesn't have to be exact. I used a hacksaw, as suggested, which was a bad idea because it ended up coming out crooked, and I had to grind on it with a Dremel tool for an hour to straighten it out.
Another thing that is not mentioned in the directions is that installing the trans will compress the hydraulic throwout bearing, and it is supposed to ride on the fingers of the clutch, which is different from a typical throwout bearing which is supposed to have a little free play.
Re-installing the transmission proved to be the most difficult part of the process, for 2 reasons:
1) I kept the dual exhaust w x-pipe in my car, which meant I had to angle the trans up through the pipes while sliding the input shaft in through the clutch and into the engine's crank. This was more difficult with the new throwout bearing in place, since it was much larger than the stock one. This reduced the clearance at a couple of critical points and made it much trickier to wiggle everything into place.
2) Once everything was lined up, the trans just WOULDN'T slide in the last inch or so. I wrestled with it for half a day, then posted on moparts.com, where it was suggested that I loosen the clutch bolts, even though I had already aligned it with the provided tool. This did the trick and the trans finally slid into place.
Another issue I ran into is that I had to cut the threaded parts of the heim join and the adjuster on the clutch master pushrod, since it was too long in stock form to fit between the pedal arm and the master. Once I cut these parts down to fit, now I can't get a full .030 of air gap at the clutch. This because I ended up shortening the throw of the master by cutting the rod. Again I contact George and he suggested drilling a new hole in the pedal arm below the original one. I'm not 100% sure this will work.
The pedal effort is very easy yet precise. Much better than the creaking mechanical linkage I had in there before. The shifting is very notchy, though. I'm not sure yet whether this is due to the clutch air gap being too low, or the shifter itself. I'm going to experiment with a different shifter at some point.
I have a weird noise that seems to come from the trans when decellerating, but only in 2nd gear. I'm still trying to track that down and I'm wondering if it might be u-joints. More later...
6.17.2004
Ok, the parts are all here! Got the trans from Passon, the rear from Dr. Diff, and the Keisler hyraulic clutch actuator kit. Next step is renting tall jackstands and a tall jack and a trans jack - there's a local place that has all this for about $40/day. Of course having waited a month and a half to get all the parts means it's now hot and humid, here, and also I've got a bunch of other projects going on, so I probably won't get started 'til next week. Also thinking I should buy a new clutch, as the old one was slipping pretty bad - probably need to re-surface the flywheel, too, so need to strategize on how to do all that without paying a ton for the equipment rental...
5.26.2004
I've ordered the Keisler hydraulic clutch kit, a new 833 non-OD trans from Passon, and a new 3.55 suregrip from Dr. Diff.
Hopefully the parts will start arriving soon and I can start installing them. It's been tough looking at my car sitting in the driveway through all the sunny days we've been having.
I reached the decision to go with all-new parts after installing my second eBay transmission and having it jam in gear immediately. The plan was to get the old trans out and rebuild it while running the backup unit. Doing the swap in my driveway was such a pain in the ass that I really don't want to go through it again unless I'm sure it's going to get the car moving again in time for summer.
Hopefully the parts will start arriving soon and I can start installing them. It's been tough looking at my car sitting in the driveway through all the sunny days we've been having.
I reached the decision to go with all-new parts after installing my second eBay transmission and having it jam in gear immediately. The plan was to get the old trans out and rebuild it while running the backup unit. Doing the swap in my driveway was such a pain in the ass that I really don't want to go through it again unless I'm sure it's going to get the car moving again in time for summer.
3.09.2004
Well, the hydraulic clutch project is on hold for the time-being. I've got the mechanical linkage working pretty well, for now, so I'm going to wait until it's time to I pull the transmission for the overhaul.
I haven't decided, but I'm still leaning towards a master-slave setup, especially if I can find a still-available stock slave that is meant to work with an 833 bell-housing. If so, I could consider creating a kit for other people to do this retrofit. The advantage over a hydraulic throwout bearing is that you don't have to pull the trans to service the slave cylinder, and you can do the install with the trans still in place.
It could be a real no-brainer if I can just find the right slave cylinder....
I haven't decided, but I'm still leaning towards a master-slave setup, especially if I can find a still-available stock slave that is meant to work with an 833 bell-housing. If so, I could consider creating a kit for other people to do this retrofit. The advantage over a hydraulic throwout bearing is that you don't have to pull the trans to service the slave cylinder, and you can do the install with the trans still in place.
It could be a real no-brainer if I can just find the right slave cylinder....
3.06.2004
Might be worth a call: http://www.applehydraulics.com/
Bingo! The plot thickens... http://dodgeram.info/tsb/1987/06-02-87.htm
Still thinking I'd rather avoid the pricey Keisler setup. Also, they never replied to my e-mailed questions about fitment etc., and I've been hearing about not-so-great customer service from them. I like the idea that a master/slave setup wouldn't force me to pull the trans in event of hydraulic failure. I could always fall back on the mechanical setup.
It seems to me that there MUST be a factory hydraulic slave meant to be used with the 833 bellhousing... there's enough bolt holes, and I bet there's a part sitting on a shelf somewhere that's bolt right up. The search continues...
It seems to me that there MUST be a factory hydraulic slave meant to be used with the 833 bellhousing... there's enough bolt holes, and I bet there's a part sitting on a shelf somewhere that's bolt right up. The search continues...
1.27.2004
Here are a lot of good pics re: installing Keisler setup: http://aolsvc.pictures.aol.com/NASApp/ygp/Start?event=DirectView&shareInfo=mFQYMXJcDsWy8HoBg8iXhf1ERBGkOiYoUcCHyCVBIFe%2fjFCnkV3ciA%3d%3d&pageName=AlbumViewFromEmails
10.10.2003
Good description of a guy using a master/slave setup in a Mustang:
http://home.comcast.net/~dciab/trans.html
http://home.comcast.net/~dciab/trans.html
4.22.2003
I decided to get rid of that blowproof bellhousing after doing some research and realizing what a pain it's going to be to install.
Also, finances dictate that I will have to wait on the hyd throwout bearing, so I'm planning to go with the original pull-type slave plan.
Also, finances dictate that I will have to wait on the hyd throwout bearing, so I'm planning to go with the original pull-type slave plan.
3.19.2003
Keisler wants $499 for this setup:
The best part is the cool master with the angle built in. But that's a lot of dough for 2 parts!
The best part is the cool master with the angle built in. But that's a lot of dough for 2 parts!
Lately I've been thinking it would be easier to use a hydraulic throwout bearing for this install, since I have to pull the transmission anyways. That way I won't need to fabricate a bracket or worry about fork throw - heck, no more fork!
McLeod Industries catalog
McLeod Industries catalog
2.24.2003
Here's a good article detailing a scattershield bellhousing installation.
2.21.2003
The bellhousing showed up last night. Damn that's a heavy box! Haven't opened it up yet, waiting 'til I get it over to my garage, or maybe I'll take it straight to the sandblasting place....
2.20.2003
I received the master and braided hose kit a couple of days ago, still waiting on the new bellhousing.
A recent post on moparts.com discussed high-speed vibration issues and one guy fixed his problem by replacing the tail shaft bushing. Heck, while I'm at it...
Also, I was cleaning the garage yesterday and finally found the brand new Hurst shifter linkage rods I had stashed (lost). These are the correct shifter linkage rods for the OverDrive transmission, including the shifter levers, which are quite different than non-OD pieces, it turns out, and all new busihings and clips. I'll post a pic later.
I'm starting to think about painting the trans and bellhousing, and I can't decide whether to go with my stealth Chrysler Blue theme, as I did with the 340, or go Hemi orange. Probably do the blue thing again.
A recent post on moparts.com discussed high-speed vibration issues and one guy fixed his problem by replacing the tail shaft bushing. Heck, while I'm at it...
Also, I was cleaning the garage yesterday and finally found the brand new Hurst shifter linkage rods I had stashed (lost). These are the correct shifter linkage rods for the OverDrive transmission, including the shifter levers, which are quite different than non-OD pieces, it turns out, and all new busihings and clips. I'll post a pic later.
I'm starting to think about painting the trans and bellhousing, and I can't decide whether to go with my stealth Chrysler Blue theme, as I did with the 340, or go Hemi orange. Probably do the blue thing again.
2.15.2003
I posted to Moparts.com to see which bearing retainer and bearing I'll need (y'know, the ole while I'm at it syndrome).
Couple of different answers but interesting:
ultrajosh: I just purchased a used Lakewood blowproof bellhousing w/ the 4.807" diameter hole. I have an 833 OverDrive transmission that has the large 5.125" bearing retainer, so I want to swap to the smaller size to fit this bellhousing.
Which bolt circle does my trans have, 3.70" or 4.16"? I'm guessing it's the larger circle, but I wanted to check with the experts before I buy the new retainer. I'm not ready to pull the trans apart yet to measure it.
Also, is there a way to tell from the outside what size input bearing I will need (I guess these used both sizes over the years)?
gearbanger: From my experiance, here's the scoop. The Lakewood bellhousings are drilled for the
4.807 retainer as you've already determined. Problem is, this retainer was used exclusively
on the coarse pitch HD four speeds and the tranny input shaft was larger in diameter,
therefore you need the coresponding 18 spline clutch disc and bigger throw-out bearing.
The OD tranny has the 308 bearing in front, because they couldn't be assembled without it.
You have two possible solutions with the parts you've got.
A...have the bellhousing hole enlarged to accomodate the jumbo 5.125" retainer on the
OD tranny.( this may make it necessary to move the clutch fork pivot point drilled inside
the bellhousing)....or...
B...get the big OD retainer turned down to fit the bellhousing. I'm not positive, but I believe
there is enough material on the edge to make this possible.
The 4.807 retainer and the overdrive retainer you have, both share the big 308 bearing
and always have.
None of the smaller retainers will bolt to an OD tranny.
62maxwgn: There is enough material on the retainer to have it turned without getting into the bolt holes.Have done quite a few.Easier than opening the bell housing.
JohnRR: josh , you need the bearing retainer from a 70 up B/E 383 trans , this trans used the 308 bearing and the 23 spline input shaft
the MP part number is P4529696 , hopefully its not on a never ending backorder . if it is call liberty , they may have a billet piece , its be spendy , but better than the factory cast part .
and yes , it will be a 308 bearing , before MP put it on never ending back order it was the cheapest and best available , came with almost a full trans gasket set .
ultrajosh: Thanks guys! Looks like they have the retainer I need at Mancini:
http://store.yahoo.com/chucker54/bearret.html
I read here, though, that the OD trans used both both the 3.14" (#307) and 3.54" (#308) bearing at different times:
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/shop/3978/tranny.html
Maybe I'll just have to wait til I open it up to see which bearing I have. I bet it will turn out to be the larger bearing since the tranny has the later-style side cover and forks.
Couple of different answers but interesting:
ultrajosh: I just purchased a used Lakewood blowproof bellhousing w/ the 4.807" diameter hole. I have an 833 OverDrive transmission that has the large 5.125" bearing retainer, so I want to swap to the smaller size to fit this bellhousing.
Which bolt circle does my trans have, 3.70" or 4.16"? I'm guessing it's the larger circle, but I wanted to check with the experts before I buy the new retainer. I'm not ready to pull the trans apart yet to measure it.
Also, is there a way to tell from the outside what size input bearing I will need (I guess these used both sizes over the years)?
gearbanger: From my experiance, here's the scoop. The Lakewood bellhousings are drilled for the
4.807 retainer as you've already determined. Problem is, this retainer was used exclusively
on the coarse pitch HD four speeds and the tranny input shaft was larger in diameter,
therefore you need the coresponding 18 spline clutch disc and bigger throw-out bearing.
The OD tranny has the 308 bearing in front, because they couldn't be assembled without it.
You have two possible solutions with the parts you've got.
A...have the bellhousing hole enlarged to accomodate the jumbo 5.125" retainer on the
OD tranny.( this may make it necessary to move the clutch fork pivot point drilled inside
the bellhousing)....or...
B...get the big OD retainer turned down to fit the bellhousing. I'm not positive, but I believe
there is enough material on the edge to make this possible.
The 4.807 retainer and the overdrive retainer you have, both share the big 308 bearing
and always have.
None of the smaller retainers will bolt to an OD tranny.
62maxwgn: There is enough material on the retainer to have it turned without getting into the bolt holes.Have done quite a few.Easier than opening the bell housing.
JohnRR: josh , you need the bearing retainer from a 70 up B/E 383 trans , this trans used the 308 bearing and the 23 spline input shaft
the MP part number is P4529696 , hopefully its not on a never ending backorder . if it is call liberty , they may have a billet piece , its be spendy , but better than the factory cast part .
and yes , it will be a 308 bearing , before MP put it on never ending back order it was the cheapest and best available , came with almost a full trans gasket set .
ultrajosh: Thanks guys! Looks like they have the retainer I need at Mancini:
http://store.yahoo.com/chucker54/bearret.html
I read here, though, that the OD trans used both both the 3.14" (#307) and 3.54" (#308) bearing at different times:
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/shop/3978/tranny.html
Maybe I'll just have to wait til I open it up to see which bearing I have. I bet it will turn out to be the larger bearing since the tranny has the later-style side cover and forks.
2.14.2003
I decided while I have the transmission out to put in a Lakewood blowproof bellhousing for safety.
I found this one on eBay for $160 complete with block plate, shift fork, and pivot ball (would cost over $350 new for all these parts), but it has the smaller 4.8" input hole (my trans has the 5" bearing retainer). So I will need to swap to a smaller input bearing retainer available here. I just need to figure out the bolt circle on my trans.
I'll take the bellhousing somewhere to get blasted and I'll repaint it while I'm painting the tranny.
I found this one on eBay for $160 complete with block plate, shift fork, and pivot ball (would cost over $350 new for all these parts), but it has the smaller 4.8" input hole (my trans has the 5" bearing retainer). So I will need to swap to a smaller input bearing retainer available here. I just need to figure out the bolt circle on my trans.
I'll take the bellhousing somewhere to get blasted and I'll repaint it while I'm painting the tranny.
2.11.2003
Useful 4-speed tranny info for future reference
